Tbf, on the whole "youth violence is down", the UK (where the show is set) specifically does have a specific problem with knife crime, with hospital admissions for knife assaults in children increasing not insignificantly in the last 10 years. Granted it's still incredibly rare all things considered, and I think more realistically the impacts of "the manosphere" and the like is less on relatively obviously shocking crimes like murder in this case (which the show is going to show more because it's a drama), but more in (relatively) low level stuff like general attitudes taken towards women and dating and sex etc. as well as a growing far-right radicalisation of young men.
Something I liked aswell about the show was it was saying that it wasn't just the fault of the phones I don't think. We see the generational impacts of toxic forms of masculinity, such as the dad talking about how his dad used to beat him, how he (imperfectly) tried to be less like his dad but that you can see some of the anger or the rage there which can still travel down. The dad's discomfort with Jamie being less obviously masculine than he is, his sense that he "took his eye of the ball" working late at night. We see this mirrored as well with the detective worrying about his son. I think it was more nuanced than the public discussion let on. I went into it worried it would hit us over the head with the "internet bad" narrative, which like yeah I do believe the internet (which is too broad a thing to be talking about in such generalisations but you know what I mean) is having an impact on younger generations in a way which isn't necessarily always good. But apart from the detective talking with his son about the emojis (which ngl I thought served the role of exposition for older people more than anything, which I was fine with), I think it was relatively subtle about it. Having finished british state school recently for example, it's portrayal of many british state schools was fairly accurate I felt. It's the media discussion around it which I think has been more moral panicy than the show itself. I don't think the wider media discussion has been entirely unwarranted, but yeah it can be unnuanced sometimes.
Matt, I appreciate this thoughtful comment. You're right that I glossed over the more nuanced, subtle aspects of the show like the reflections on fatherhood and generational differences around masculinity. I take your point about knife violence in the UK — of which overwhelmingly the victims and perpetrators are young black men — but overall, youth violence in the UK has been in a long decline like the US: https://youthendowmentfund.org.uk/reports/beyond-the-headlines-2024/summary/
The main point I wanted to make is that shows like Adolescence prompt fear often at the expense of more balanced or positive portrayals of masculinity — which are too rare.
Coaches are great, but YouTube might be dooming kids, too.
There is a lot of correlation between overwhelming media consumption and feelings of loneliness. There's a part of the "violence" not captured here, and that's since 2007. suicide rates in teens, across gender, have increased by 62% (based on a few studies I've seen), and there is a lot of valid finger-pointing to media and content. Also, 80% of suicides are male. Agree coaches can help, but media is crippling kids (and adults). As a father of two boys with roughly 8 years of seeing coaches, I also see a vast delta in the types of coaches nurturing kids. I've seen my fair share of macho, inspired-by-too-many-viewings-of-Full-Metal-Jacket coaches. And then there are the ones that do a masterful job of bridging sports and life skills. I like those coaches. We need more of those.
I dig the call to action, but I hope you're talking to people without kids to step up, too. If this is another "parents you should be coaches, too", then :flails hands:. I mean, we are coaches; it's that we need the broader community to be coaches, too.
I don’t disagree that kids (and all of us) should be spending less time online, but we have to offer an alternative and not just say what *not* to do.
And yes, as you would guess, I am very interested in non-parents coaching children as a way to mentor children and as a way for parents to let non-parents into the lives of their children.
As someone who spends close to 8 hours most days with boys, I can confirm many sentiments in this post. Coaching is an art and as someone who started when I was 18 and continued for 27 years, we are losing not only coaches but have less coaches who really know the art of coaching. Your posts often carry a future optimism that my lived experiences won’t allow me, I’m probably not doing it right. *sigh
I appreciate your attention to the lack of role models for boys. When I was teaching, I saw this need for men to look up to from the boys, and I felt sad that I could never replicate that. And, I think the fear of boys becoming incels is overblown as you have shown. I am halfway through Adolescence and I just find the whole thing to be kind of unbelievable tbh.
Yes, its incredible that men now account for just 23% of the U.S. elementary and secondary school teachers, down from about 30% in 1988.
The alarmism prompted by Adolescence — especially among moms — relates to our other thread about the importance of pairing logical analysis (are boys actually more violent?) with emotional reactions.
That’s a great point I hadn’t considered. Are boys misunderstood also at the psychological level because they don’t lead with emotion? I’m thinking yes.
Tbf, on the whole "youth violence is down", the UK (where the show is set) specifically does have a specific problem with knife crime, with hospital admissions for knife assaults in children increasing not insignificantly in the last 10 years. Granted it's still incredibly rare all things considered, and I think more realistically the impacts of "the manosphere" and the like is less on relatively obviously shocking crimes like murder in this case (which the show is going to show more because it's a drama), but more in (relatively) low level stuff like general attitudes taken towards women and dating and sex etc. as well as a growing far-right radicalisation of young men.
Something I liked aswell about the show was it was saying that it wasn't just the fault of the phones I don't think. We see the generational impacts of toxic forms of masculinity, such as the dad talking about how his dad used to beat him, how he (imperfectly) tried to be less like his dad but that you can see some of the anger or the rage there which can still travel down. The dad's discomfort with Jamie being less obviously masculine than he is, his sense that he "took his eye of the ball" working late at night. We see this mirrored as well with the detective worrying about his son. I think it was more nuanced than the public discussion let on. I went into it worried it would hit us over the head with the "internet bad" narrative, which like yeah I do believe the internet (which is too broad a thing to be talking about in such generalisations but you know what I mean) is having an impact on younger generations in a way which isn't necessarily always good. But apart from the detective talking with his son about the emojis (which ngl I thought served the role of exposition for older people more than anything, which I was fine with), I think it was relatively subtle about it. Having finished british state school recently for example, it's portrayal of many british state schools was fairly accurate I felt. It's the media discussion around it which I think has been more moral panicy than the show itself. I don't think the wider media discussion has been entirely unwarranted, but yeah it can be unnuanced sometimes.
Matt, I appreciate this thoughtful comment. You're right that I glossed over the more nuanced, subtle aspects of the show like the reflections on fatherhood and generational differences around masculinity. I take your point about knife violence in the UK — of which overwhelmingly the victims and perpetrators are young black men — but overall, youth violence in the UK has been in a long decline like the US: https://youthendowmentfund.org.uk/reports/beyond-the-headlines-2024/summary/
The main point I wanted to make is that shows like Adolescence prompt fear often at the expense of more balanced or positive portrayals of masculinity — which are too rare.
Coaches are great, but YouTube might be dooming kids, too.
There is a lot of correlation between overwhelming media consumption and feelings of loneliness. There's a part of the "violence" not captured here, and that's since 2007. suicide rates in teens, across gender, have increased by 62% (based on a few studies I've seen), and there is a lot of valid finger-pointing to media and content. Also, 80% of suicides are male. Agree coaches can help, but media is crippling kids (and adults). As a father of two boys with roughly 8 years of seeing coaches, I also see a vast delta in the types of coaches nurturing kids. I've seen my fair share of macho, inspired-by-too-many-viewings-of-Full-Metal-Jacket coaches. And then there are the ones that do a masterful job of bridging sports and life skills. I like those coaches. We need more of those.
I dig the call to action, but I hope you're talking to people without kids to step up, too. If this is another "parents you should be coaches, too", then :flails hands:. I mean, we are coaches; it's that we need the broader community to be coaches, too.
Speaking of which, this looks tough to watch: https://www.jolt.film/watch/cantlookaway
I don’t disagree that kids (and all of us) should be spending less time online, but we have to offer an alternative and not just say what *not* to do.
And yes, as you would guess, I am very interested in non-parents coaching children as a way to mentor children and as a way for parents to let non-parents into the lives of their children.
As someone who spends close to 8 hours most days with boys, I can confirm many sentiments in this post. Coaching is an art and as someone who started when I was 18 and continued for 27 years, we are losing not only coaches but have less coaches who really know the art of coaching. Your posts often carry a future optimism that my lived experiences won’t allow me, I’m probably not doing it right. *sigh
New idea for Late Adulthood: coaching coaches. You'd give some important leadership to a group like https://www.millioncoaches.org or https://positivecoach.org
I appreciate your attention to the lack of role models for boys. When I was teaching, I saw this need for men to look up to from the boys, and I felt sad that I could never replicate that. And, I think the fear of boys becoming incels is overblown as you have shown. I am halfway through Adolescence and I just find the whole thing to be kind of unbelievable tbh.
Yes, its incredible that men now account for just 23% of the U.S. elementary and secondary school teachers, down from about 30% in 1988.
The alarmism prompted by Adolescence — especially among moms — relates to our other thread about the importance of pairing logical analysis (are boys actually more violent?) with emotional reactions.
That’s a great point I hadn’t considered. Are boys misunderstood also at the psychological level because they don’t lead with emotion? I’m thinking yes.